Jordan Peterson believes humanity needs religion, that without religion we will slide into anarchy and chaos. That we need god to ground us from nihilism. I was discussing this with my friend who used to be a religious muslim just like I was and he had some interesting reflections on this topic. I got his permission to share this private recording have a listen and tell me what you think. Friend: Yeah I was listening to some Youtube video yesterday Friend: and um it was just a different psychological topics Friend: and I ended up listening to a whole string of Jordan Peterson Friend: videos it was on one of those auto play things so it just goes from Friend: you know one video to another Friend: about.. by the same person if you like Friend: it’s really interesting um I Friend: a lot of the things he says makes a lot of sense Friend: I think the main thing that I don’t agree with him, is that he’s Friend: kinda assertion that religion is needed by human, Friend: humanity. That religious symbolism Friend: really just um Friend: archetypes Friend: are uh, you know Friend: are sort of the foundations, the fundamentals of Friend: human ethics and human morality and without those Friend: archetypes, humanity will not know Friend: how to sort of progress and Friend: and he does refer to Carl Jung and Friend: Dostoevsky a lot, I mean but the thing to remember Friend: is you know Carl Jung and Dostoevsky they Friend: grew up in times of turmoil they Friend: or they developed their thinking or saw a world Friend: around them that had Hitler and Stalin Friend: you know the gulags, concentration camps, nazi camps Friend: they grew up in a world of that type and Friend: you know they saw humanity at it’s worst. Friend: But um that’s not because of Friend: an absence of religion. I mean religion Friend: there was more religion Friend: at that time, then there is now. Western society was Friend: more religion then, then it is now Friend: and um you know the likes of Adolf Hitler Friend: they didn’t outright, uh reject religion Friend: if any thing they used religion and you know all the Friend: other examplesand you know Chairman Mao and Friend: you know all those in sort of more modern times in the Friend: last couple of centuries. Friend: These people were Friend: were nationalist, they had another type of religion. Friend: a sense of superiority, a sense of Friend: them being special and that’s what religion creates but Friend: I mean they themselves didn’t believe in a Friend: or subscribe to a religion. Friend: kinda religious beliefs Friend: and um I think the thing that he ignores is Friend: is if you look at human history, um religion Friend: have created a lot of violence and a lot of Friend: terrible strife amongst human beings and created a lot of devision Friend: and um its created you know this Friend: this sense of superiority and um separateness. Friend: I mean Carl Jung spent a lot of his time studying Friend: alchemy like I said before but he also studied Friend: spent a lot of time studying savages you know thats Friend: you know black savages and Friend: ah you know he was a mild racist Friend: but he wouldn’t be considered a racist Friend: at his time because that’s the way society was Friend: so.. if a Friend: you know if he thinks Carl Jung espoused Friend: you know all the things he said was fantastic then he should speak like Carl Jung Friend: and say talk about the black savages in Africa Friend: and how they should be studied to find out why they have Friend: low IQs, because that’s exactly what Carl Jung would have said. Friend: yeah but we don’t talk like that and we don’t agree Friend: Carl Jung was right on that front, you know Friend: um and like with Dostoevsky Friend: crime and punishment and you know the expirements Friend: that he the thought experiments that he does about how Friend: you know if without religion human beings Friend: are capable of doing absolutely anything and there’s nothing to stop him Friend: but I mean that’s kinda like Friend: intellectual masturbation if you like because Friend: actually most human beings if you look at human society Friend: most human beings don’t plunge Friend: their minds into such depths of thinking, they don’t think ok Friend: there is not god, there is no justice, there is this that Friend: and I can take advantage of that and prosper from that Friend: this is the argument that Dostoevsky makes you know Friend: in his book Crime and Punishment but that is not Friend: how most of us think, if you look around you Friend: I think um Bertrand Russell said you know most people would Friend: rather die then think and that’s Friend: that I think is a better understanding of reality Friend: most people would rather die then think, most people don’t Friend: sit around thinking actually there is not god, there’s no judgement Friend: there’s no this, there’s no that. I can get away with anything most people don’t do that. Friend: Most people would just want to get along and you know be likehave Friend: have peace, earn a bit of money, live a comfortable life Friend: you know food, drink, sex and Friend: and emotional bondage. That’s what most people want. Friend: You know yes intellectual giants like Dostoevsky might think Friend: that the rest of the world is full of people like him, but there not. Friend: that’s the reality the evidence shows, the empirical evidence shows Friend: that most people have a low IQ,Friend: But most people are not intelligent enough to Friend: engage in such intellectual masturbation Friend: most people would just get on, all they want is order Friend: and the only thing that I can see in the world Friend: that’s causing disorder and discord is Friend: the sense of separation and difference Friend: and the sense of isolation and those things are Friend: brought about by nationalism by religion Friend: by racism. By these kind of biases and Friend: I don’t think he does well for himself Friend: I’m talking about Jordan Peterson Friend: trying to support religion, I mean I like the idea of Friend: the greek idea or the Friend: the ancient greeks and their concept of the gods. Friend: In that they believe, that the gods were there to Friend: guide mankind in their infancy Friend: and to you know help them to stand their two feet Friend: but once prometheus had stolen fire Friend: and taught man how to make iron, man become stronger Friend: and he no longer needs god, I mean I’m just paraphrasing. This is in my own language. Friend: He no longer needed god, so he got rid of god Friend: and then when men no longer needed god, what happens Friend: you know its the gods who become Friend: wrathful, vengeful, capricious, malicious Friend: you know that’s what happens gods start Friend: and this is what’s happening, when humanity Friend: gradually humanity turns away from god Friend: and believing and following religion Friend: and what happens is religious people Friend: who are basically gods, they are the representation of god they Friend: speak for god, because god never speaks, you see Friend: so religious people become capricious, malicious, Friend: violent, you know vengeful and they try to Friend: force religion onto people, they because they themselves are actually god, they are Friend: the people who turn into savages Friend: and this is exactly what happens in methodology Friend: so I think Jordan Peterson is very well read Friend: but I think like Socrates I think Friend: the you know man Friend: knows his intelligence when he know how much he doesn’t know and I think Friend: that’s Friend: I certainly do believe that as you do Friend: we’re both ex-religious people Friend: that there is good in religion, there are certain things that religion provides which is good. Friend: Ok and that’s fine Friend: but to say that you know Friend: we religion is absolutely Friend: essential for humanity and Friend: and you know if you kinda say that Friend: express the view that religion is not necessary Friend: or religion exposes is a bad thing for humanity Friend: then somehow your deluded and your Friend: wrong and you haven’t read enough Friend: and you don’t know enough, well thats what he seems to be saying Friend: about Friend: people like Sam Harris not people like me and you Friend: but people like Sam Harris I mean that’s just Friend: foolish. Abdullah: Thank you for watching. Friend: Do you agree withor do you agree with Jordan Peterson? Abdullah: Let me know in the comments. Thank you. Abdullah: Abdullah Sameer out.